MegaList, February 1999 (Part Two)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 00:24:14 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
At 01:33 AM 2/18/99 +0200, Steve Schuessler wrote:
> [Kevin Langdon] wrote:
>> What have you contributed, Eric?
> Hey pardner, give'm a chance: he only recently decided to check
> us out and see if this list is worthwhile.
Don't you think that works both ways?
> He's not the only one who described our past publications as
> lame--Mark and Greg did too.
I would agree that some of our past publications could fairly be
described as "lame," but I talke exception to such characterizations
if they are intended to apply to the issues I've edited. Unless there
is a substantial excess of appreciative over critical response to
this message, I shall resign as Editor.
> The past year's Gift of Fire (the Prometheus Journal) far exceeds
> any other high-IQ publication, in terms of the variety of topics
> and proportion of members involved; we can do the same for
> ours.
Having a considerably larger membership to draw on makes it
easier to fill issues, but Fred Vaughan has devoted a great deal of
energy to editing *Gift of Fire* and he's entitled to a lot of credit--
and so are the members who've written all that material. However,
there's a lot of crap and filler in *GoF* along with the good stuff
and the difference between *Noesis* and *Gift of Fire* is more
a matter of quantity than quality.
What would go farthest toward drawing more contributions to
*Noesis*? An enthusiastic Editor, one willing to put in the
energy required to get the journal out on a regular schedule.
I'm only doing this job in the absence of someone like that.
Other priorities do not permit me to do more.
These are my views alone; our other Editor has his own
approach and his own views.
Kevin Langdon
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:43:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Erlandson <ere@inetnebr.com>
To: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
cc: megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Kevin Langdon wrote:
> At 01:33 AM 2/18/99 +0200, Steve Schuessler wrote:
>
> > [Kevin Langdon] wrote:
>
> >> What have you contributed, Eric?
Not much. I edited some very lousy issues of Noesis a decade ago, and
have submitted little for publication, preferring instead to maintain
private correspondence with members and spend hours on the phone with
them. Sadly, involvement to even that extent has fallen off as family and
business demands of me prevailed. If this be treason, make the worst of
it.
> > Hey pardner, give'm a chance: he only recently decided to check
> > us out and see if this list is worthwhile.
Thanks, Steve. Actually, I've been marginally involved in the high-IQ
societies for 11 or 12 years, and been part of enough of their history to
recognize what threatens them. These internecine battles haven't done
anyone a whit of good, and Kevin's submission that we're entitled to read
private correspondence if it contains the right kind of propaganda
disturbs me. It's exactly that kind of focus on the political that
ultimately ruins groups like these.
> Don't you think that works both ways?
>
> > He's not the only one who described our past publications as
> > lame--Mark and Greg did too.
>
> I would agree that some of our past publications could fairly be
> described as "lame," but I talke exception to such characterizations
> if they are intended to apply to the issues I've edited. Unless there
> is a substantial excess of appreciative over critical response to
> this message, I shall resign as Editor.
Suit yourself. Stomping off by the thin-skinned is classic hIQ society
behavior, and no one would be shocked. The issues you've edited have been
generally fine, notwithstanding the who-runs-what threads.
> > The past year's Gift of Fire (the Prometheus Journal) far exceeds
> > any other high-IQ publication, in terms of the variety of topics
> > and proportion of members involved; we can do the same for
> > ours.
>
> Having a considerably larger membership to draw on makes it
> easier to fill issues, but Fred Vaughan has devoted a great deal of
> energy to editing *Gift of Fire* and he's entitled to a lot of credit--
> and so are the members who've written all that material. However,
> there's a lot of crap and filler in *GoF* along with the good stuff
> and the difference between *Noesis* and *Gift of Fire* is more
> a matter of quantity than quality.
>
> What would go farthest toward drawing more contributions to
> *Noesis*? An enthusiastic Editor, one willing to put in the
> energy required to get the journal out on a regular schedule.
> I'm only doing this job in the absence of someone like that.
> Other priorities do not permit me to do more.
>
> These are my views alone; our other Editor has his own
> approach and his own views.
I confess to having lost track of who our other editor is. If Rick Rosner
and Chris Cole still do it, I'm grateful. They certainly couldn't be
expected to compose theoretical physics tractati for every issue, but
neither of them has this ridiculous tendency to control-freaking that
continually destroys groups like the Mega Society. Though Langan has had
a running feud with members, we did manage to go years without danger of
losing the group altogether (for any reason other than lack of interest).
Your compulsion to turn things back to whether you'll be here or not,
whether you'll edit or not, whether Langan's naughty thoughts should be
publicized or not, seems incredibly counterproductive. I would be
interested in how you view that as a better way to spend your time than
simply participating in things noetic and psychometric -- areas in which
you excel and to which your contributions have been greatly appreciated.
Eric
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:18:05 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
At 09:43 AM 2/18/99 -0600, Eric Erlandson wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Kevin Langdon wrote:
>> At 01:33 AM 2/18/99 +0200, Steve Schuessler wrote:
>>> [Kevin Langdon] wrote:
>>>> What have you contributed, Eric?
> Not much. I edited some very lousy issues of Noesis a decade
> ago,
I've read all those issues. There wasn't much good material being
submitted then, so I can't blame the Editor.
> and have submitted little for publication, preferring instead to
> maintain private correspondence with members and spend hours
> on the phone with them.
This kind of activity is valuable, too, though not as visible. The
fact that people are using these societies for their own private (and
quite worthwhile) purposes is often left out by critics of the
societies.
> Sadly, involvement to even that extent has fallen off as family
> and business demands of me prevailed. If this be treason, make
> the worst of it.
Hey, we all try to have a life. Those who participate from time to
time are also appreciated.
>>> Hey pardner, give'm a chance: he only recently decided to check
>>> us out and see if this list is worthwhile.
> Thanks, Steve. Actually, I've been marginally involved in the
> high-IQ societies for 11 or 12 years, and been part of enough of
> their history to recognize what threatens them. These internecine
> battles haven't done anyone a whit of good,
The battles are not nice, but a battle is needed every time some
moron thinks that being an officer of one of these groups entitles
him to boss other people around instead of being a public servant.
I have always opposed tyranny wherever I've found it, but the
people responsible for the battles are the damn tyrants.
> and Kevin's submission that we're entitled to read private
> correspondence if it contains the right kind of propaganda
> disturbs me. It's exactly that kind of focus on the political that
> ultimately ruins groups like these.
That's a misstatement of my position, and probably a deliberate
one. Try to fight fair if you're going to enter the fray, Eric. Let's
make it a little more personal. Let's suppose that I get a letter
containing false allegations that Eric Erlandson is a drug dealer.
If I were to receive such a letter I would feel obligated to disclose
its contents to Eric. The same thing applies when the allegations
are about this society.
>> Don't you think that works both ways?
>>> He's not the only one who described our past publications
>>> as lame--Mark and Greg did too.
>> I would agree that some of our past publications could fairly
>> be described as "lame," but I talke exception to such
>> characterizations if they are intended to apply to the issues
>> I've edited. Unless there is a substantial excess of appreciative
>> over critical response to this message, I shall resign as Editor.
> Suit yourself. Stomping off by the thin-skinned is classic hIQ
> society behavior, and no one would be shocked.
As anyone who follows the affairs of these societies knows, I'm
not particularly thin-skinned, but editing *Noesis* is a lot of
work and I won't do it unless the product is appreciated.
> The issues you've edited have been generally fine,
> notwithstanding the who-runs-what threads.
Thanks, Eric. I've tried to contain the political stuff in my
replies to Chris Langan so it doesn't dominate *Noesis*, but,
as the "Boffin Board" problem shows, it can be dangerous not
to set the record straight.
>>> The past year's Gift of Fire (the Prometheus Journal) far
>>> exceeds any other high-IQ publication, in terms of the
>>> variety of topics and proportion of members involved;
>>> we can do the same for ours.
>> Having a considerably larger membership to draw on makes
>> it easier to fill issues, but Fred Vaughan has devoted a great
>> deal of energy to editing *Gift of Fire* and he's entitled to a
>> lot of credit--and so are the members who've written all that
>> material. However, there's a lot of crap and filler in *GoF*
>> along with the good stuff and the difference between *Noesis*
>> and *Gift of Fire* is more a matter of quantity than quality.
>>
>> What would go farthest toward drawing more contributions
>> to *Noesis*? An enthusiastic Editor, one willing to put in the
>> energy required to get the journal out on a regular schedule.
>> I'm only doing this job in the absence of someone like that.
>> Other priorities do not permit me to do more.
>>
>> These are my views alone; our other Editor has his own
>> approach and his own views.
> I confess to having lost track of who our other editor is. If
> Rick Rosner and Chris Cole still do it, I'm grateful. They
> certainly couldn't be expected to compose theoretical physics
> tractati for every issue, but neither of them has this ridiculous
> tendency to control-freaking that continually destroys groups
> like the Mega Society.
Nor do I. I believe that when there's a controversy regarding
what the society should do the members should decide.
Rick is not currently involved in production of *Noesis*, after
a long run as Editor. Ron Hoeflin is our other Editor and Chris
Cole is Publisher.
> Though Langan has had a running feud with members, we
> did manage to go years without danger of losing the group
> altogether (for any reason other than lack of interest).
The bus can run off the road on either side.
> Your compulsion to turn things back to whether you'll be
> here or not,
Have no fear on that score; I intend to remain a member of
Mega.
> whether you'll edit or not,
My position on that is explained above.
> whether Langan's naughty thoughts should be publicized or
> not, seems incredibly counterproductive.
My opinion about that is counterproductive and yours is
productive?
> I would be interested in how you view that as a better way
> to spend your time than simply participating in things noetic
> and psychometric -- areas in which you excel and to which
> your contributions have been greatly appreciated.
> Eric
I appreciate Eric's kind words, but I think we have to have
both a vital intellectual dialog and protection of democratic
institutions for a society like Mega to function properly.
Fortunately, Chris Langan has not been successful in imposing
his views on members of Mega, but he continues to make
trouble for us out in the world, which is problematical because
that's where new members come from.
Kevin Langdon
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:09:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Erlandson <ere@inetnebr.com>
To: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
cc: megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Kevin Langdon wrote:
> The battles are not nice, but a battle is needed every time some
> moron thinks that being an officer of one of these groups entitles
> him to boss other people around instead of being a public servant.
> I have always opposed tyranny wherever I've found it, but the
> people responsible for the battles are the damn tyrants.
A jerk has to be effective to be a tyrant, and I guess I wasn't aware of
Langan's ever succeeding in doing anything but distracting and irritating
some of us. Tyrants do exist in the high IQ society world, I know, as
witness ISPE.
> > and Kevin's submission that we're entitled to read private
> > correspondence if it contains the right kind of propaganda
> > disturbs me. It's exactly that kind of focus on the political that
> > ultimately ruins groups like these.
>
> That's a misstatement of my position, and probably a deliberate
> one. Try to fight fair if you're going to enter the fray, Eric. Let's
> make it a little more personal. Let's suppose that I get a letter
> containing false allegations that Eric Erlandson is a drug dealer.
> If I were to receive such a letter I would feel obligated to disclose
> its contents to Eric. The same thing applies when the allegations
> are about this society.
It was an overstatement of your position. My main point was the last
sentence above: It's exactly that kind of focus on the political that
ultimately ruins groups like these.
> Thanks, Eric. I've tried to contain the political stuff in my
> replies to Chris Langan so it doesn't dominate *Noesis*, but,
> as the "Boffin Board" problem shows, it can be dangerous not
> to set the record straight.
I care less than you about what others think about this. (By which, I
don't mean to imply I never care what others think.)
> > I confess to having lost track of who our other editor is. If
> > Rick Rosner and Chris Cole still do it, I'm grateful. They
> > certainly couldn't be expected to compose theoretical physics
> > tractati for every issue, but neither of them has this ridiculous
> > tendency to control-freaking that continually destroys groups
> > like the Mega Society.
>
> Nor do I. I believe that when there's a controversy regarding
> what the society should do the members should decide.
I agree.
> Rick is not currently involved in production of *Noesis*, after
> a long run as Editor. Ron Hoeflin is our other Editor and Chris
> Cole is Publisher.
I have known that, but forgot it. I read most of the issues. Honestly, I
do.
> > Your compulsion to turn things back to whether you'll be
> > here or not,
>
> Have no fear on that score; I intend to remain a member of
> Mega.
Good!
> > whether Langan's naughty thoughts should be publicized or
> > not, seems incredibly counterproductive.
>
> My opinion about that is counterproductive and yours is
> productive?
I didn't originally think it a very productive business for the
membership, and so I expressed my sentiments privately to Ferry who
apparently decided the rest of you should be made aware of my dangerous
thought. As I wrote him, I expected this.
> I appreciate Eric's kind words, but I think we have to have
> both a vital intellectual dialog and protection of democratic
> institutions for a society like Mega to function properly.
Surely.
> Fortunately, Chris Langan has not been successful in imposing
> his views on members of Mega, but he continues to make
> trouble for us out in the world, which is problematical because
> that's where new members come from.
Here, we part. To hell with him. Got any good paradoxes?
Eric
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:28:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "James P. Ferry" <jferry@cse.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
To: megalist@brokersys.com
Eric Erlandson wrote:
> > My opinion about that is counterproductive and yours is
> > productive?
> I didn't originally think it a very productive business for the
> membership, and so I expressed my sentiments privately to Ferry who
> apparently decided the rest of you should be made aware of my dangerous
> thought. As I wrote him, I expected this.
I didn't realize that you'd written that to me alone until just
now. Kinda ironizes my response. BTW, I've gotten into a barking
match with Langan on the BrainBoard, which began with my post at
http://www.brain.com/bboard/read/iq/353
from about a month ago. Langan recently found it and replied with
his usual charm. I don't think I gruntled with "My Complaint about
Chris Langan." He still doesn't realize a computer wrote it.
| Jim Ferry | http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/jferry/ |
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:19:11 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
At 03:09 PM 2/18/99 -0600, Eric Erlandson wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Kevin Langdon wrote:
>> The battles are not nice, but a battle is needed every time some
>> moron thinks that being an officer of one of these groups entitles
>> him to boss other people around instead of being a public servant.
>> I have always opposed tyranny wherever I've found it, but the
>> people responsible for the battles are the damn tyrants.
> A jerk has to be effective to be a tyrant, and I guess I wasn't aware
> of Langan's ever succeeding in doing anything but distracting and
> irritating some of us. Tyrants do exist in the high IQ society world,
> I know, as witness ISPE.
Yes, I agree, but it's better to oppose a would-be tyrant before he
becomes King, while he's still just a jerk. These guys do real harm
when they get power.
>> > and Kevin's submission that we're entitled to read private
>> > correspondence if it contains the right kind of propaganda
>> > disturbs me. It's exactly that kind of focus on the political that
>> > ultimately ruins groups like these.
>> That's a misstatement of my position, and probably a deliberate
>> one. Try to fight fair if you're going to enter the fray, Eric. Let's
>> make it a little more personal. Let's suppose that I get a letter
>> containing false allegations that Eric Erlandson is a drug dealer.
>> If I were to receive such a letter I would feel obligated to disclose
>> its contents to Eric. The same thing applies when the allegations
>> are about this society.
> It was an overstatement of your position. My main point was the
> last sentence above: It's exactly that kind of focus on the political
> that ultimately ruins groups like these.
"Political" issues come up. What makes them so burdensome is
that we don't have ways of resolving them faster. What's happening
here is the beginning of a way around that. The pace of Internet
exchanges should make it more difficult for the will of the
membership to be thwarted in the future.
>> Thanks, Eric. I've tried to contain the political stuff in my
>> replies to Chris Langan so it doesn't dominate *Noesis*, but,
>> as the "Boffin Board" problem shows, it can be dangerous not
>> to set the record straight.
> I care less than you about what others think about this. (By which,
> I don't mean to imply I never care what others think.)
I care in the sense that I expect people who have heard about the
Mega Society and are eligible for membership to go in the wrong
door and decide that Mega is a society of lunatics, instead of the mere
kooks' club it actually is, and that nothing of value is to found here.
Eric and I seem to have converged pretty rapidly to only one or two
real differences. This rapid convergence, which one sees over and
over again, is one of the real and obvious differences between very-
high-cutoff societies and those with lower standards.
Kevin Langdon
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 15:28:28 -0600 (CST)
From: "James P. Ferry" <jferry@cse.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
To: megalist@brokersys.com
Eric Erlandson wrote:
> > My opinion about that is counterproductive and yours is
> > productive?
>
> I didn't originally think it a very productive business for the
> membership, and so I expressed my sentiments privately to Ferry who
> apparently decided the rest of you should be made aware of my dangerous
> thought. As I wrote him, I expected this.
I didn't realize that you'd written that to me alone until just
now. Kinda ironizes my response. BTW, I've gotten into a barking
match with Langan on the BrainBoard, which began with my post at
http://www.brain.com/bboard/read/iq/353
from about a month ago. Langan recently found it and replied with
his usual charm. I don't think I gruntled with "My Complaint about
Chris Langan." He still doesn't realize a computer wrote it.
| Jim Ferry | http://www.uiuc.edu/ph/www/jferry/ |
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:22:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Erlandson <ere@inetnebr.com>
To: "James P. Ferry" <jferry@cse.uiuc.edu>
cc: megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Clangin'
On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, James P. Ferry wrote:
> He still doesn't realize a computer wrote it.
Ha! He didn't drop it into the CTMU hopper and instantly receive that
wisdom? Rich, rich.
Eric
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 04:22:48 +0200
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
Subject: [MegaList] ISPE member looks at Mega
I need you to help me.
The Boffin Board got it wrong, then fixed it, then screwed it up again. The links I mean.
Joe Werheim, also known as Boffin, is a Belgian member of ISPE who just started another
public web-based bulletin board.
It's at:
http://www.ping.be/zwing/wwwboard/boffinboard.htm
(it looks like the Braintainment Board, where our Jim Ferry rules with style)
He is summarizing what Jim Ferry, Kevin, Chris Langan, and I are saying:
---------------Joe's summary--------------
Trouble at the Top?!!
What's going on with the
Mega Society?
What is the Mega Society?
A society consisting of people who score above 1[sic] in-a-million, the 99.9999 percentile.
Why don't they vote or something?
Kevin Langdon:
"comments on the proposal to
make Steve Schuessler's site the
official Mega Web site and a ballot
will be included in Ron Hoeflin's next
issue." [of Noesis]
Are there two Mega societies?
It seems that two separate groups
are claiming the name. Take a look
at the Mega Society homepages for
yourself.
Who's doing the claiming?
Kevin Langdon
Jim Ferry
Steve Schuessler
vs.
Chris Langan
-----------------end of Joe's summary-----------
only Three-to-One?
We can triple that; let's make it nine to one. Sometimes you have to give the ISPE group a very clear signal.
Please click on the "post" and enter a quick note there.
Here is his page again:
http://www.ping.be/zwing/wwwboard/boffinboard.htm
---------------------Steve's letter to Joe-----------------
Dear Joe Wehrheim, also known as Boffin,
Congratulations on opening another channel for discussion. I hope you continue keeping it open.
The manner you linked to my Mega page, however, was a mistake.
You've created an odd incomprehensible monster by splicing the pages inside of "frames" like that. Each of us put a lot of effort into the way our pages look. Playing with html is fun--but I doubt anyone (with a standard-sized monitor) would look at your "zwing" page inside a frame either!
What Chris and I meant by linking our pages was for each of us to include a link to *each other*.
Suggestion: just hyperlink my page separately, the way Darryl Miyaguchi does. Darryl was the first one (as far as I know) who linked to your page.
Thanks.
- Steve Schuessler
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:17:55 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: ISPE member looks at Mega
At 04:22 AM 2/18/99 +0200, Steve Schuessler wrote:
> I need you to help me.
> The Boffin Board got it wrong, then fixed it, then screwed it up again.
> The links I mean.
> Joe Werheim, also known as Boffin, is a Belgian member of ISPE
> who just started another public web-based bulletin board.
> It's at:
> http://www.ping.be/zwing/wwwboard/boffinboard.htm
> (it looks like the Braintainment Board, where our Jim Ferry rules with
> style)
It's probably a good thing that there's more than one board, but it's
become just about impossible to keep up with what's going on in the
higher-IQ-societies community. The Net has changed our little world.
> He is summarizing what Jim Ferry, Kevin, Chris Langan, and I are
> saying:
> ---------------Joe's summary--------------
> Trouble at the Top?!!
> What's going on with the
> Mega Society?
> What is the Mega Society?
> A society consisting of people who score above 1[sic] in-a-million,
> the 99.9999 percentile.
[sic] isn't very specific. Spelling out numbers less than eleven is only
a convention, but the omission of the hyphen after "1" and the lack
of a "th" after "99.9999" are both usage errors.
> Why don't they vote or something?
Steve, have you pointed out that *we already voted* and that Chris
Langan didn't get any votes?
> Kevin Langdon:
> "comments on the proposal to make Steve Schuessler's site the
> official Mega Web site and a ballot will be included in Ron Hoeflin's
> next issue." [of Noesis]
Where is this guy getting his material? Is he reading the MegaList? If
so, I would appreciate not being quoted out of context.
> Are there two Mega societies?
> It seems that two separate groups are claiming the name. Take a
> look at the Mega Society homepages for yourself.
> Who's doing the claiming?
> Kevin Langdon
> Jim Ferry
> Steve Schuessler
> vs.
> Chris Langan
> -----------------end of Joe's summary-----------
> only Three-to-One?
Well there are Eric Hart and Jojo Einstein. Chris Langan is
Three-in-One, like a certain other Being that Chris thinks he's
higher than. ;-)
> We can triple that; let's make it nine to one. Sometimes you
> have to give the ISPE group a very clear signal.
> Please click on the "post" and enter a quick note there.
> Here is his page again:
> http://www.ping.be/zwing/wwwboard/boffinboard.htm
Please take the trouble to do this.
> ---------------------Steve's letter to Joe-----------------
> Dear Joe Wehrheim, also known as Boffin,
> Congratulations on opening another channel for discussion.
> I hope you continue keeping it open.
> The manner you linked to my Mega page, however, was a
> mistake.
> You've created an odd incomprehensible monster by splicing
> the pages inside of "frames" like that.
That practice has been sound by at least some courts to be
illegal when done by one commercial entity with material from
another.
> Each of us put a lot of effort into the way our pages look.
> Playing with html is fun--but I doubt anyone (with a standard-
> sized monitor) would look at your "zwing" page inside a
> frame either!
> What Chris and I meant by linking our pages was for each of
> us to include a link to *each other*.
In my opinion, there should not be a link from what seems
about to become the official Mega Web site to Chris Langan's
pirate site.
> Suggestion: just hyperlink my page separately, the way
> Darryl Miyaguchi does. Darryl was the first one (as far as I
> know) who linked to your page.
> Thanks.
> - Steve Schuessler
Thank you, Steve, for bringing this problem to our attention.
Kevin Langdon
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 20:29:28 +0200
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
[Subject: Let me know Langan inclusion?]
Hi people,
Here is the latest Boffinities. This exchange concerns me.
*************
If you have an opinion about Langan's
inclusion here, please let me know right away.
--- Thanks,
Steve
*************
--------------
Posted [on Boffin Board] by Chris Langan on February 18, 1999 at 16:48:13:
Something just came to my attention: the existence
of what WCF member Jim Ferry calls a "Mega Society
e-mail list".
Now, there's something weird about this list, to
wit: I've been a card-carrying member of Mega
since the 1980's, and was never told about it!
Isn't that amazing?
Well, actually, it's not. Not if you know Kevin
Langdon, it isn't.
You see, Kevin is trying to get himself and his
friends "elected" right now in the Mega Society.
And if there's one thing that Kevin and his
friends hate, it's what you or I would call
"playing fair". You can't rig a bogus election if
you allow the free exchange of information, and
Kevin - being an expert at this kind of thing -
apparently excluded me from the list so that I'd
be unable to contact other members who prefer to
obey the law, and to acknowledge the obvious
distinctions between standard IQ tests and
power-oriented IEQ tests.
Both kinds of test are valid for what they
measure, but it can easily be shown that they are
not statistically equivalent. The arguments to
this effect have appeared in almost every high-IQ
journal in existence. Moreover, it is illegal to
market one kind of test as the other. It would be
easy for Kevin to relabel his tests to comply with
the law, and with valid psychometric procedure.
Unfortunately, he is too obstinate to do this.
I already knew that Kevin was keeping his personal
membership roster secret; he announced as much in
Noesis/WCE. But I didn't know he'd go this far.
My personal thanks to Langdon toady Jim Ferry for
this tidbit of information.
Anybody want to guess how "valid" this makes the
upcoming WCF self-election? I hate to air dirty
Mega Society laundry like this, but that seems to
be the only way to get the word out to those new
members of the Society that Kevin's faction has
recruited.
Thanks for your attention.
Chris Langan
------------
Posted [on Boffin Board] by Jim Ferry on February 19, 1999 at 07:39:03:
In Reply to: Bogus Mega Society Election posted by Chris Langan on
February 18, 1999 at 16:48:13:
Chris Langan wrote:
> Something just came to my attention: the
> existence of what WCF member Jim Ferry calls a
> "Mega Society e-mail list".
"WCF" means "West Coast Faction." Darryl
Miyaguchi refers to Langan's "group" as the East
Coast Faction of the Mega Society on his website,
www.eskimo.com/~miyaguch/. (I mistakenly wrote
earlier that Paul Maxim was a part of this
"group." I apologize to him for my error. If
anyone besides Chris (and his pseudonyms) claim
membership, it would be interesting to hear from
him or her.)
Chris' attitude toward what he calls the WCF is
puzzling: on one hand, he seems to view himself
as the sole legitimate Mega Society; on the other,
when the "WCF" does something he dislikes, he
complains about *Mega*. It's not confusing when
he says "Mega," however. His meaning can usually
be inferred from context :@).
> Now, there's something weird about this list, to
> wit: I've been a card-carrying member of Mega
> since the 1980's, and was never told about it!
> Isn't that amazing?
Calling it "the Mega Society e-mail list" was
imprecise. (But then, calling Mega a high-IQ
society is imprecise, since the admission criteria
are such imperfect measures of IQ.) What I was
referring to is the MegaList, a creation of Steve
Schuessler, who writes:
> (1) What is MegaList?
>
> It is a private, invitation-only distribution
> list. It is not an official part of any group.
The name "MegaList" reflects the fact that Steve
invites only members and ex-members of (or
qualifiers for) Mega to participate. Steve
recently asked for opinions on whether to invite
Chris Langan to the list. This idea was agreed to
be bad because of Chris' hostile, divisive
reputation. How he got such a reputation is a
mystery to me (insert smiley). I only joined
recently.
> My personal thanks to Langdon toady Jim Ferry
> for this tidbit of information.
Uh-oh. Boss is gonna be mad :@).
------------------------
Posted [on Boffin Board] by Chris Langan on February 19, 1999 at 08:15:46:
In Reply to: Re: Bogus Mega Society Election posted by Jim Ferry on
February 19, 1999 at 07:39:03:
First, will Langdon toady Jim Ferry please butt
out? Jim is a study in division by zero, and I
don't want to talk to him any more. If others on
the Mega Society email list want to talk to Jim,
please do so in a private forum (like the Mega
Society email list).
Now, then. Steve, can you tell me honestly that
(a) Kevin Langdon has not been allowed to
propagandize on your list,(b) Kevin and his
personal allies had nothing to do with my
exclusion, and (c) what the WCF calls the "Mega
Society election" is not being touched upon in
any way, either directly or indirectly? If you
can truthfully answer "yes" to all questions,
then I'll modify my original message on this
topic. Otherwise, there is clearly no reason to
do so.
Please be specific regarding the topics discussed
on your list.
Regards,
Chris
---------------------------------------------------------
Steve - http://www.brokersys.com/~bahai icq 24607437
The Mega Society Page
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:50:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Benoit Desjardins <benoit@mars1.mars.upmc.edu>
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Let me know Langan inclusion?- Subject header for the
last message
To: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
Cc: megalist@brokersys.com
Steve,
under no condition should you include Chris Langan to the list.
I have been spending the last few days finding out as much as I
could about Mega's history by exchanging e-mails with different
players (including Langan). I also took the opportunity to
form an opinion about the different players I was talking to.
Here is my opinion of Chris Langan at this point.
Chris is a high school graduate who feels cheated out of life.
His father beat him up, and he did not get the opportunity to
pursue his education beyond high school. Now in his 40s, he
is spending his time working on some kind of formal theory of
reality, within which he says he has been able to solve very
important problems (like P=NP?). This is called in psychiatry
"grandiose delusions of exceptional talent", found either in
the manic phase of bipolar disease or in schizophrenia. I
think schizaphrenia (paranoid type) would be my diagnosis for
him. Chris appears severely sick, and is possibly under no
medical treatment. He has completely lost contact with
his reality.
Adding Chris to the list would not only be harmful for all
of us, but would also be a complete waste of time. He will
surely flood the list with messages about nothing and
everything. He appears to be connected to the net in
permanence, given the speed of his replies. I certainly
don't want to see my electronic mailbox full of his messages
when I read it every night.
Benoit
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:07:49 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Erlandson <ere@inetnebr.com>
To: Benoit Desjardins <benoit@mars1.mars.upmc.edu>
cc: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>, megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Let me know Langan inclusion?- Subject header for
the last message
I wouldn't care if we let him on, though I wouldn't go to the mat over it
either. He can always be removed if he's unable to talk of anything but
who should govern the group. I wouldn't mind another chance at hearing
what (if anything) he has to say on matters unrelated to the society
itself.
Kevin's case for refusing him has merit; the rant below reads like a
newsgroup flame. His father beat him up, and he may have psychological
problems, eh? That scumbag.
E-mail filters aren't hard to set up, by the way.
-Eric
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999, Benoit Desjardins wrote:
[see above]
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 00:20:02 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: Let me know Langan inclusion?
At 12:07 AM 2/20/99 -0600, Eric Erlandson wrote:
> I wouldn't care if we let him on, though I wouldn't go to the mat
> over it either. He can always be removed if he's unable to talk of
> anything but who should govern the group. I wouldn't mind
> another chance at hearing what (if anything) he has to say on
> matters unrelated to the society itself.
You don't know how much world-class thinking Chris Langan has
contributed to the Mega Society and its high-IQ snotrag, *Noesis*.
Since the only thing that makes the Mega Society worthwhile is the
CTMU, naturally Chris' views on Mega are the only ones that any
sane person should listen to (not that any of you worthless pigs
have shown yourselves to be sane by showing the proper deference
to Chris Langan).
Good luck getting Chris to follow the same rules as everybody else,
or even to be polite to his fellow members.
> Kevin's case for refusing him has merit; the rant below reads like
> a newsgroup flame. His father beat him up, and he may have
> psychological problems, eh? That scumbag.
I'm opposed to Chris' misrepresentation of his phony Mega Society
and his phony *Noesis* as the real thing, as I've said in *Noesis*
and in a number of messages here. But I haven't advocated refusing
him as a member of the MegaList, because I have a problem with
calling a list by the name of the Mega Society if a member isn't
allowed to participate. (My solution to this problem would be to
change the name of the list to, say, the more accurate "microlist.")
> E-mail filters aren't hard to set up, by the way.
> -Eric
True, but there's the matter of feeling free to write what one likes
without worrying about becoming Chris' target. If you Langdon
toadies think that that can't happen to you you haven't been paying
attention.
Kevin Langdon
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 09:50:35 -0600 (CST)
From: Eric Erlandson <ere@inetnebr.com>
To: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
cc: megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Re: Let me know Langan inclusion?
On Sat, 20 Feb 1999, Kevin Langdon wrote:
> I'm opposed to Chris' misrepresentation of his phony Mega Society
> and his phony *Noesis* as the real thing, as I've said in *Noesis*
> and in a number of messages here. But I haven't advocated refusing
> him as a member of the MegaList, because I have a problem with
> calling a list by the name of the Mega Society if a member isn't
> allowed to participate. (My solution to this problem would be to
> change the name of the list to, say, the more accurate "microlist.")
I guess I misunderstood your position. Sorry. Though, I'm pretty sure I
know where you stand on Langan, generally. :)
Eric
Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 20:21:29 -0500
From: "Robert J. Dick" <rdick@idt.net>
To: megalist@brokersys.com
Subject: Re: [MegaList] Let me know Langan inclusion?- Subject header for the last
message
I request that Chris Langan be kept off this list. It is not because he
is mentally ill--after all, I am too. There are several reasons.
1) He does not recognize the legitimacy of the legitimate Mega Society.
2) His illness is disabling, not in the sense of being unable to pass
the Mega Test, but in the sense of being unable to create interaction
between his ideas and the ideas of others. Ie he could not establish
effective communication in the realm of ideas even were he admitted.
3) He is good at calculating, but bad at thinking, and he is oblivious
to the latter failing. Ie he is a fool.
Bob Dick
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 09:14:31 -0600
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
Subject: [MegaList] South Park!
Boffin board's Cheesy Poofs: Chris (Cartman) Langan says:
-------
: Sorry, but I had to make some room up here.
: Now, I see two points that would superficially
: appear to merit a reply. You claim that Kevin
: has never been on your list because you haven't
: finished voting on whether he should be
included.
: I say you're a liar, and my reason is this:
: : >>>> My e-mail to Joe Wehrheim
: : >>> Joe's response to me
: : >> My e-mail to MegaList
: : > Kevin Langdon's reply
: This comes from Jim Ferry's initial message
: regarding the chain of correspondence that
: precipitated this exchange. It's right on this
: board. Jim sent email to the MegaList and was
: responded to by Kevin Langdon. What are you
: going to tell everyone now - that you forwarded
: that correspondence to Kevin, and then back to
: Jim? Bullshit. You lied, plain and simple.
Come on Chris, Here's the statement
in question:
: : >Well, Steve, the thing is this.
: : >Regardless of any delay, Kevin
: : >Langdon got voted IN; I got voted
: : >OUT. Kevin is one of the most
: : >contentious people in the HIQ world,
: : >and everybody knows it. I have a
: : >stack of his newletters to prove it,
: : >and so should you. So I already
: : >know that you have a bias going on
: : >in the little boy's room there, and
: : >that it has nothing to do with any
: : >tendency on Kevin's part to remain
: : >passive in the face of opposition.
And here was my reply:
: : Actually, it is still pending, but you
: : never thought ask me before launching
: : your offensive. I only popped the
: : question two days ago, so I haven't
: : heard from everybody yet. Maybe
: : you've influenced the remaining by
: : the tone of your posts here.
: : Oops.
I conclude that you took the "it" and
thought I meant "Kevin".
So here it is again, with the meanings
spelled out exactly as I thought them:
: : Actually, it [my decision to include you,
: : Chris Langan, on my list] is still pending,
: : but you never thought ask me before launching
: : your offensive. I only popped the question
: : ["Should I invite Chris Langan here?"]
: : two days ago, so I haven't heard from
: : everybody yet. Maybe you've influenced
: : the remaining by the tone of your posts here.
: : Oops.
Well there you have it, Chris! A lie? Unclear writing?
Sometimes we see only what we are expecting to find.
: The second point is the part about me having
: strikes "but no balls". Do you know what I do for
: a living, boy? Do you know the risk you're taking
: by making a comment like that, especially after
: lying to my face? Run back to your mushroom,
: little toady, before Uncle Chris has to spank
: your bare bottom right in front of everyone
: (again). And save your long-winded nonsense for
: someone who thinks you can write.
Hmm... I get paid to use my brain...
And you bounce drunken trolls out of smoky
bars.
We could try trading places. I admit
your solution sounds more efficient,
since I have to wait until after work
to visit the gym. And think of all those
opportunities to hone my insult technique
I've been missing!
Ball One. You hit a Foul, so you aren't
out yet. Another pitch, high, right
over the plate: Ask Ron Hoeflin, or
just quit challenging my membership
qualification.
: The members of the high-IQ
: community await your
: apology. You've tried to play
: all of us for fools
: as only a fool would do.
: Chris Langan
Do you still want that apology?
[ OK, ok, I did sleep with that woman.
We went at it like crazed weasels! ]
: (and for the second time, I regret
: being forced to take this tone)
I've decided we are in another
sublime Dr. Suess story: The Zax.
Steve - http://www.brokersys.com/~bahai icq 24607437
The Mega Society Page
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:34:53 -0600
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Boffin fire-hosed his bathroom wall
The man from ISPE just washed away our posts, leaving the ISPE posts intact. Maybe he's getting his Censorship merit badge; maybe he's merely incompetent.
Wait ... sorry, that was too harsh; let's see what this action means.
Until today, his link to "Mega" went to a page with the heading "Trouble
at the Top?". Now if you click there, it takes you to see Smilin' Steve.
------------Begin Boffin's post------------
Posted by Boffin on February 23, 1999 at 12:42:32:
Unfortunately, due to technical trouble on my
part, I've inadvertently deleted all the Mega
files. I was going to give it its own place, but
now have decided just to leave everything on the
main board. If there's anything else to say,
you're free to use this public forum to do so.
However, I'm sure everyone would much rather hear
about your hopes and dreams, anecdotes, and
possibly a brilliant idea or two. So I encourage
you to speak and be heard, but remember, be kind.
-----------End of Boffin's post---------------
Steve - http://www.brokersys.com/~bahai icq 24607437
The Mega Society Page
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:45:52 -0600
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Steve <bahai@brokersys.com>
Subject: [MegaList] MegaBoard
I'm considering adding a bulletin board.
The names 'MegaBoard' or 'Ask Mega' spring to mind.
Or maybe go all the way--start to campaign for a Newsgroup on Usenet.
Steve - http://www.brokersys.com/~bahai icq 24607437
The Mega Society Page
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 17:14:30 -0800
To: megalist@brokersys.com
From: Kevin Langdon <kevin.langdon@polymath-systems.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Re: MegaBoard
At 04:45 PM 2/23/99 -0600, Steve wrote:
> I'm considering adding a bulletin board.
> The names 'MegaBoard' or 'Ask Mega' spring to mind.
Shouldn't that be "Ask Megalyn"? :-)
As I've mentioned in relation to this list, when a name is very
close to the name of the Mega Society, I believe that the resource
with that name should be open to all Mega members and under
the control of Mega rather than of an individual member.
> Or maybe go all the way--start to campaign for a Newsgroup
> on Usenet.
Usenet is old, clunky technology. And so are bulletin boards
like the Brain Board and the Boffin Board. There are many
free services on the Web that combine a list like this one with
a Web page on which messages are posted, which can be made
public. For example, e-groups, which hosts the TNS lists and
my Theft of Fire list for Prometheus, provides such Web pages;
they don't even put restrictions on the volume of messages
they'll archive.
Threaded boards are awkward to navigate; a single message
strream is much more practical, though I'd be happy with a
system that made it convenient to read the messages sequentially
*or* by thread.
Kevin Langdon
From: "Paul" <paul@jitterbug.prestel.co.uk>
To: "MEGA LIST" <MegaList@brokersys.com>
Subject: [MegaList] Langan
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 23:22:24 -0000
I've been communicating with Chris Langan in a series of [2-3 dozen] e-mails over the last few days and as a result I am convinced that inviting him to the megalist would be a bad idea.
My personal experience with Langan basically agrees with everything I've read and heard about him - and it aint favourable!
So - that's my view - a definite "no"!
Paul Johns